Curse

Daesu · Apr 15, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

S'what I did. Plus I get 4 slots for Bday gifts, and extra zkeys. ^_^

I think that cheaper option is alot more game breaking than the slots. And the cheek of some people complaining about the price of the slots, when they themselves are exploiting the game. That sounds hypocritical.

Targren · Apr 15, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I think that cheaper option is alot more game breaking than the slots. And the cheek of some people complaining about the price of the slots, when they themselves are exploiting the game. That sounds hypocritical.

May well be more game breaking(I disagree, personally), but for anyone that doesn't want to pay 10x as much for the convenience of the tab, they're pretty much encouraging it.

I fail to see the hypocrisy in it though?

Jaran Cell · Apr 15, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

You'r all making this way too complicated.
The question isn't if Arena-net is trying to screw you over with "super high" storage prices.
10$ isn't much, I'm a rather poor student I could afford a couple of these without any problems.

The real question is if you'r prepared to pay 10$ for a couple of extra slots in a virtual chest to store your virtual items in Arena-nets virtual world.

I'd rather have a pizza or take my gf out to see a movie but you guys can do whatever you want.

Peace ^^

Fril Estelin · Apr 15, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Not that I call that an "advantage", per se, other than being able to spend more time farming on the weekends

In passing: following this logic, buying a char slot or another account would give you the exact same "advantage". And I doubt a lot of people see it that way (I've never seen this mentioned before, but I may have missed it).

To the point: farming is done for getting the vanity items or the titles via money (not the SS/LB/EotN factions), I don't consider them part of the game (and don't think DreamWind and Bryant Again do). So no advantage? I'm back to the point where we're talking convenience, not advantage. Unless you see the fact of "having more" an advantage simply because there's the word "more", I mean the dictionary definition of "advantage" allows that, but I thought we meant "advantage" like "beating the game faster".

Targren · Apr 15, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

To the point: farming is done for getting the vanity items or the titles via money (not the SS/LB/EotN factions), I don't consider them part of the game (and don't think DreamWind and Bryant Again do). So no advantage? I'm back to the point where we're talking convenience, not advantage. Unless you see the fact of "having more" an advantage simply because there's the word "more", I mean the dictionary definition of "advantage" allows that, but I thought we meant "advantage" like "beating the game faster".

If you don't consider getting money part of playing the game, then no, I guess it doesn't have any effect. It's not only for vanity items or titles though. I farm because outfitting a new toon every time I want to try a new class gets crazy expensive (especially since I started trying the caster classes...). It does help beat the game faster if those extra 40 minutes of farming gets me half a stack of clovers for 25k which is another 25k I can use to buy a 40/40 set for my new monk just getting to Kaineng Center... It just depends how far down the chain you want to look

DreamWind · Apr 15, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Can you give me examples of how this affect the game, rather than its economy? Because Xunlai chest panes are accessed in towns/outposts where we don't play the game. You may see something that I don't see.

I'm talking about advantages between players, not affects on the game. If somebody spends money they can have a game advantage over me. They can hold more. They can get more keys. Etc. As minimal as that might be to you (or me for that matter), it is still a game advantage they shouldn't be allowed to have through those means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

EDIT: P.S.: Do you still play the game? And would you buy one pane at $5? (just for my information)[/I]

Once in a while to the former, and absolutely no to the latter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I find it wierd that some people here want everything to free free free without working for it. Maybe you should sign up to be a GW2 game tester/dev and work for free, in exchange for all free game content.

There are some things that should be given for free without working...example being UAX (and Anet agrees as they are doing so in GW2). Almost everybody knows that having to work for UAX or having to buy it has always been a stupid idea. The sad part is a lot of people still bought UAX so they didn't have to work, even though the entire concept of buying something that should be free is ridiculous. Does that make it right? Extra storage to me falls right into this category. Honestly this is like attribute refund points still existing and they gave you the $10 option to have infinite of them. There is a big difference between selling a convience and selling the removal of a game inadequacy.

Gli · Apr 15, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

There are some things that should be given for free without working...example being UAX (and Anet agrees as they are doing so in GW2). Almost everybody knows that having to work for UAX or having to buy it has always been a stupid idea. The sad part is a lot of people still bought UAX so they didn't have to work, even though the entire concept of buying something that should be free is ridiculous. Does that make it right? Extra storage to me falls right into this category. Honestly this is like attribute refund points still existing and they gave you the $10 option to have infinite of them. There is a big difference between selling a convience and selling the removal of a game inadequacy.

The amount of storage isn't a game inadequacy. It's a design parameter. It's quite obvious that zero storage wouldn't work for players while unlimited storage won't work for the provider. So, they decided upon a value inbetween.

You're saying the amount they picked is an inadequate amount, others find it just fine. Your opinion has no factual basis, there's no inadequacy.

Daesu · Apr 15, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I'm talking about advantages between players, not affects on the game. If somebody spends money they can have a game advantage over me. They can hold more. They can get more keys. Etc. As minimal as that might be to you (or me for that matter), it is still a game advantage they shouldn't be allowed to have through those means.

You are stretching this argument and you know it. Why dont you complain about the price of a new accounts right now? You can hold even MORE and get more zkey in return. That is even more game breaking than the slots so why dont some one start a thread complaining about that?

Using the "game-breaking" excuse for 3 more storage tabs is ridiculous.

DreamWind · Apr 15, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

The amount of storage isn't a game inadequacy. It's a design parameter. It's quite obvious that zero storage wouldn't work for players while unlimited storage won't work for the provider. So, they decided upon a value inbetween.

Your scenario is even worse than the one I described, because that means they deliberately chose a low storage value in order to sell more storage to us later. Sounds a lot like those GW2 doom posts I have been reading in this thread may actually come true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You're saying the amount they picked is an inadequate amount, others find it just fine. Your opinion has no factual basis, there's no inadequacy.

What others find it just fine? The low amount of storage has probably been the most complained about feature in the history of the game. I rarely play PvE anymore and even I don't have any storage. Character slots are often purchased solely for extra storage. How can you sit here and say there is no inadequacy with a straight face.

Gli · Apr 15, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Your scenario is even worse than the one I described, because that means they deliberately chose a low storage value in order to sell more storage to us later. Sounds a lot like those GW2 doom posts I have been reading in this thread may actually come true.

Seeing as how they had to be goaded on for over a year by the player base before they even considered selling any separate storage in the form of extra character slots, I don't see much merit in your claim. (And that's about par for that course.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

What others find it just fine? The low amount of storage has probably been the most complained about feature in the history of the game. I rarely play PvE anymore and even I don't have any storage. Character slots are often purchased solely for extra storage. How can you sit here and say there is no inadequacy with a straight face.

How can you claim there is one? There has never been a storage inadequacy. If there had been, people would've left the game in droves over it. Do you even know the meaning of the word inadequate? 'Inadequate storage' doesn't mean 'less than I would like', it means 'less than I would absolutely need to get by.' And obviously the latter is not the case.

Targren · Apr 15, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

How can you claim there is one? There has never been a storage inadequacy. If there had been, people would've left the game in droves over it. Do you even know the meaning of the word inadequate? 'Inadequate storage' doesn't mean 'less than I would like', it means 'less than I would absolutely need to get by.' And obviously the latter is not the case.

Using your selected definition of "inadequacy" meaning "bad enough to warrant quitting the game", perhaps. Using a more mainstream definition of "enough", "acceptable", then that's an entirely subjective claim, so claims that your statements are "factual" are false.

If everyone felt like they had enough storage, there would not even exist a market for the new panels.

agrios · Apr 15, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

/not signed.

ANet cant give us freebies for ever. But... I think 10 bucks for a single pane is a bit overpriced imho. I think US$ 5 is a fair price for a single storage pane.

Id gladly pay more than US$10 for other stuff like more PVE content and/or shiny stuff, name/sex change, hair stylist, unlocking equipment skins for PvP chars, etc..

DreamWind · Apr 15, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Why dont you complain about the price of a new accounts right now? You can hold even MORE and get more zkey in return. That is even more game breaking than the slots so why dont some one start a thread complaining about that?

I have complained about the ability to get keys from accounts in the XTH thread...that problem is probably even worse than this one. It is in the same ballpark though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Seeing as how they had to be goaded on for over a year by the player base before they even considered selling any separate storage in the form of extra character slots, I don't see much merit in your claim. (And that's about par for that course.)

The thing is they didn't sell the extra character slots specifically for the storage purposes. Instead many people bought them for the storage purposes. Anet didn't give people what they wanted (more storage) until after they had already bought a bunch of other stuff and now they are charging us again for what was probably the most requested feature to begin with.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that if Anet charged us for all this at the beginning of Guild Wars, there would not be nearly as many players today due to outrage. They waited YEARS to give us extra storage (all the while continually hinting at it) and then finally released it with a charge for all the people who have been waiting. How can you not call this a slap in the face?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

How can you claim there is one? There has never been a storage inadequacy. If there had been, people would've left the game in droves over it. Do you even know the meaning of the word inadequate? 'Inadequate storage' doesn't mean 'less than I would like', it means 'less than I would absolutely need to get by.' And obviously the latter is not the case.

I'm glad targren explained this so I don't have to. If there is no inadequacy, there would be no need to sell more.

Gli · Apr 15, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Using your selected definition of "inadequacy" meaning "bad enough to warrant quitting the game", perhaps. Using a more mainstream definition of "enough", "acceptable", then that's an entirely subjective claim, so claims that your statements are "factual" are false.

If everyone felt like they had enough storage, there would not even exist a market for the new panels.

Inadequate means insufficient; not up to the task. It's an absolute. It would be a game breaking condition if storage were inadequate.

To say that storage is inadequate is an exaggeration of subjective experience into fact. 'Acceptable' isn't a more mainstream definition of inadequate. It doesn't even remotely mean the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The thing is they didn't sell the extra character slots specifically for the storage purposes. Instead many people bought them for the storage purposes. Anet didn't give people what they wanted (more storage) until after they had already bought a bunch of other stuff and now they are charging us again for what was probably the most requested feature to begin with.

What on earth are you talking about? They're not charging us anything. They're making something available for purchase. Something that's been available for a long time, in a different form, at a lesser price. Buy at your leisure, or not if you don't find the luxury worth the price. No reason to raise a shitstorm over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

This isn't even mentioning the fact that if Anet charged us for all this at the beginning of Guild Wars, there would not be nearly as many players today due to outrage. They waited YEARS to give us extra storage (all the while continually hinting at it) and then finally released it with a charge for all the people who have been waiting. How can you not call this a slap in the face?

They're still giving us some extra storage for free, as promised. And they're also offering an extra option for purchase. As many have noted, it's less storage for more money, and they're doing nothing to take away the more inexpensive options that have been available for years. No one is getting screwed over, nothing unreasonable is going to happen. It's a luxury option, and it's up to the individual to decide if they find it worth the price. Do you consider it a slap in the face if the manufacturer of your car introduces as smaller, more sleek model that costs more than the one you're driving?

DreamWind · Apr 15, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Inadequate means insufficient; not up to the task. It's an absolute. It would be a game breaking condition if storage were inadequate.

To say that storage is inadequate is an exaggeration of subjective experience into fact. 'Acceptable' isn't a more mainstream definition of inadequate. It doesn't even remotely mean the same thing.

inadequate:

adjective
1. lacking the requisite qualities or resources to meet a task; "inadequate training"; "the staff was inadequate"; "she was unequal to the task" [ant: adequate]
2. not sufficient to meet a need; "an inadequate income"; "a poor salary"; "money is short"; "on short rations"; "food is in short supply"; "short on experience"

I'm sorry, but our definition of inadequate stands. The current storage is very inadequate for a large amount of people as shown by years of complaints. People need more storage to hold their stuff. Anet is selling a way around a game inadequacy.

Gli · Apr 15, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

inadequate:

adjective
1. lacking the requisite qualities or resources to meet a task; "inadequate training"; "the staff was inadequate"; "she was unequal to the task" [ant: adequate]
2. not sufficient to meet a need; "an inadequate income"; "a poor salary"; "money is short"; "on short rations"; "food is in short supply"; "short on experience"

I'm sorry, but our definition of inadequate stands. The current storage is very inadequate for a large amount of people as shown by years of complaints. People need more storage to hold their stuff. Anet is selling a way around a game inadequacy.

Fascinating... You're claiming A, then point at something saying B and you're convinced it's saying A. Are you under some kind of hypnosis?

Maybe you should give some thought to the idea that the amount of stuff people need to store is a subjective desire and not a defining absolute characteristic? Because if you don't, you'll have to follow your reasoning to the bitter end and conclude that no amount of storage is ever enough to meet everybody's needs. You'll have to keep being argumentative until they offer unlimited storage for free.

Fril Estelin · Apr 15, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

inadequate:

adjective

DreamWind, seriously, do you realise how you're turning a discussion of a situation into a war on words for the sake of a few principles that have very little impact on your gameplay since you don't play that much? I know that words are important (I'm an academic) but this is getting pointless and an unfruitfull part of the discussion. It's like the discussion on "advantages", we're drifting further away after each posts, I've got no interest in "winning" Guru arguments and discussing for the sake of just playing rhetorical games. As Gli just said: You'll have to keep being argumentative until they offer unlimited storage for free.

DreamWind · Apr 15, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

They're not charging us anything. They're making something available for purchase.

That should be free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Something that's been available for a long time, in a different form, at a lesser price.

Which is even worse on 2 levels. Not only should it be free, they are charging for it at an excessive price. Sort of like how when skill unlocks first came out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Buy at your leisure, or not if you don't find the luxury worth the price. No reason to raise a shitstorm over it.

There is perfect reason, in the same way a shitstorm is legitimate (and always has been) over having to purchase UAX. It is stupid on many levels and I'm actually stunned people aren't seeing it. What if they decided to sell UAX and extra storage in GW2? Would that be enough to make you annoyed yet? What is it going to take? Not to mention I didn't purchase a game where microtransactions were going to be rampant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

It's a luxury option, and it's up to the individual to decide if they find it worth the price. Do you consider it a slap in the face if the manufacturer of your car introduces as smaller, more sleek model that costs more than the one you're driving?

Bad example. We are talking about using real money to purchase in game stuff. If I want a game like that I can find hundreds of them. You can't compare my car to somebody elses better car because that person used a different means other than what I used to get the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Because if you don't, you'll have to follow your reasoning to the bitter end and conclude that no amount of storage is ever enough to meet everybody's needs.

Technically true, but an amount of storage should be enough to meet the needs of most. Instead we have a large amount of people complaining for YEARS about Anet's "set storage amount".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You'll have to keep being argumentative until they offer unlimited storage for free.

Not an unlimited amount (which would be nearly impossible). But an amount that keeps most people happy instead of the alternative.

White Lies · Apr 15, 2009, 10:44 PM // 22:44

This is going to sound stupid but: I dont understand whether we have to pay for the armor and equipment stuff (as in it counts as a pane) or not.
If that is the case, i find it absolutly ludicrous that ArenaNet didnt mention before that this update would have a price tag. A LOT of interest was generated with the announcement of this storage update and finding out we have to pay for it nearly at the last minuite, after being told that we would get no skill balance this month because all resources have been diverted to this 'speacial update' is a joke. Also, i noted when i clicked on the link in the first post that they are releasing a new area and some quests and missions aswell. This area of land/quests/ect are free to access. To me it would have made MUCH more sence to have the players pay for that and have the storage update free rather than the otherway around. From what i have seen on these forums especially, people complain(ed) alot more about storage problems than lack of areas and those that seeked these new areas wanted nothing like this. When i was glancing through the article i read 'Zaishen' and 'Pets'. That (in my book at least) means title farmers, PvP and rangers...

Long story short, i feel the interest generated by this update will be lost because of this price tag and that the price tag itself could have easily have been placed on the elements of the update that people DIDNT know about, that were to be announced as fresh stuff now.

Overall, im becoming tiered of GWs and was hoping that this update would refresh my enjoyment of a game i once did enjoy an awefull lot. But it seems not to be...

Just my incoherent thoughts on the matter at hand

~Lies

kupp · Apr 15, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

The storage update is free, so is the equipment tab... The only thing you'll have to pay for is the optional extra storage tabs you can get from the ingame store.